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The Cyprus Property Action Group returns

Earlier today, the Cyprus Property Action group launched a new website containing information, advice, and guidance for existing and would-be purchasers of property on the Island.

THE Cyprus Property Action Group (CPAG) has re-launched its website in which it provides buyers with information and advice on how to address the risks and deal with the nefarious business practices that plague the Island’s property industry.

In April 2010 CPAG closed down its original website due to the risks to those involved in its management and operation. Since that time, the organisation has been busy lobbying the UK Government and the European Union to bring pressure on the Government of Cyprus to resolve the scandalous mess surrounding Title Deeds.

In addition to information and advice, CPAG’s new website contains guidance for buyers who wish to complain to the authorities, including the Cyprus’ Competition and Consumer Protection Service, MEPs and (for UK residents) their local Member of Parliament.

A spokesperson for the group said: “None of us wish to inflict harm on the Island’s property industry or its economy, but we have been forced into this because of the government’s failure to protect the legitimate rights of property buyers.

If there is any blame to be attached for our actions, it rests solely with the government of Cyprus for its failure to regulate the property industry”.

For more information visit the Cyprus Property Action Group website.

Readers' comments

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  • Richard says:

    @Odd Job Bob

    Yep – I think you have a very fair point and I’ve heard that funny story before (adapted for a number of ‘professions’)! Lawyers & financiers rule the earth it seems, but even that is not a certainty that it will be the case everywhere forever.

    I guess I’m seeing more young people look at their parents ulcers over all of these responsibilities + their usage of mobile/cloud technology and seeing more and more of them look upon such burdens of fixed immovable property with a slightly “bugger that” attitude.

    Now – it’s fine to live out of a Winnebago or a posh trailer when you are a young free spirit – but you could argue it’s less attractive at 50+.

    What is interesting though – is people seem to be becoming less interested in & fixated on ‘one place one lifestyle’ unless they are absurdly happy with it and/or have been there generations.

    That alone may have some serious ramifications for the industry as a whole no matter how deep their pockets may be.

    Again – whilst I share your correct reservations that the roots of this issue go very, very deep – even the deepest roots can be pulled up (or shaken). You just have to want them to be (and maybe have another less anti-social hole to put them in). Only when all those options have been exhausted should you reach for the glyphosate!

  • andyp says:

    OJB 12.22. I agree that it the lawyers who are the primary culprits. You did however forget to mention that with the various positions they hold and with the benefit of the full support of their Trade Union, The CBA, they are at the moment fully protected.

    That is another reason why names are not published on CM nor CPB. If they were a valuable resource and help site could be lost if the line were crossed. You can’t even get away with using allegedly in Cyprus next to a lawyers name.

    Perhaps a name and shame site would be useful where people can post their experiences with the posters taking full responsibility for their own posts.

  • Gavin Jones says:

    Richard.

    Your sentiments and proposals ARE noble and are achievable within the confines of societies which have a certain rationale. Cyprus does NOT come into this category.

    Therefore, in the context of the Cyprus ‘model’, forget it. I’m naturally unaware of your knowledge and experience of the island’s modus operandi but I regret to have to inform you that your reasoning has no place here, however well intentioned. Instead there exists ‘rusfeti’ (open granting of favours), corruption on a huge scale and a judiciary which is part of rather than a solution to the problem. (The majority of Deputies (MPs) are lawyers),

    Most people have finally come to the conclusion that the softly-softly approach will not work here and that the use of the big stick, concerted pressure and other in-your-face methods are the only way likely to achieve any form of satisfaction: sad but that’s the way it is.

    For the record, I have a lifelong association with Cyprus via my mother’s ancestry and I therefore consider that my experiences MAY have some validity.

  • Gavin Jones says:

    Odd_Job_Bob (10.20).

    I’m not aware that I’ve stated anywhere that Leonidas and his Spartans achieved a “victory”. (I’ve visited the actual site twice and like everyone else endured the roar of lorries thundering past and picked up plastic bags and other garbage. Ditto at Marathon without the lorries). Mine were simply illustrations of what groups of people did in a certain set of circumstances.

    Your philosophy appears to be that there’s no point standing up against the Cypriot state and that according to you all of us who are doing so “WILL LOSE”. I suppose it’s good to know in advance that if any of us are ever in a tight spot, we won’t be relying on your services.

    This being the case, should one assume that your view is that all those who want to rebel against despotic, corrupt regimes and try to instigate change should heed your words by not bothering and accepting their lot? Go tell that not just to the Spartans but also to the Egyptians, Tunisians, Syrians, Yemenis, Libyans and anyone else for that matter.

    I put it to you that you’re indulging in semantics viz. mentioning knowing when to “withdraw”, etc. Never once do you state what YOUR tactics would be in the context of the Cypriot state and the title deed scandal. Oh yes, I’ve forgotten. Don’t bother because those trying to obtain justice will lose.

    You write that the Cypriot state “… “haven’t necessarily caused the problem”. I beg to differ. Succesive governments, by definition representing and administering “the state”, HAVE caused the title deed problem by singularly failing to pass laws removing the opportunity for developers, in conjunction with lawyers and banks, to fraudulently dupe property purchasers of legal ownership. So yes. Governments ARE ultimately responsible, in partnership with the unholy triumvirate mentioned above.

    Finally, putting the Cypriot state under pressure is only part of this equation. Involving the EU, the efforts of bodies such as CPAG, individuals, websites and forums such as this, all play their part and demonstrate that there are those who WILL stand up and be counted rather than adopt the say or do nothing route.

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    Richard, I LOVED your line “Spitfires and Hitler aside now”! Made me laugh out loud and realise how empassioned (and a little up itself) this debate has been, including (or is that especially?) my comments!

    Good though that the debate has been had.

    To lighten the mood somewhat:

    A man goes home from work after his first day at his father’s law firm. His father, a senior solicitor and his son’s idol, asks how was his first day. The son proudly tells his father that he has solved a case that has been on the books for over 20 years.
    The father shakes his head and looks sad.
    “What’s wrong?” asks the worried son.
    “Son, well done on the case, but it’s been our highest fee earner for over 20 years and with the way I had it stitched up, it was going to be for the next 20 years…”

    I agree with all your sentiments, Richard, but the key to solving this issue is the lawyers.

    The lawyers ARE in the government and ARE property developers and, if we go right back to first principles, ARE the ones who created the property law in the country in the first place!

    When challenged with regards to helping out PDs who are not lawyers, their answer was a definite, “NOT UNLESS YOU PAY ME A POO-LOAD OF MONEY”.

    Without the legal fraternity on our side we cannot win. They will not be on our side as they have orchestrated the whole thing. Every new piece of legislation protects the perpetrators and requires we part with more money, either to the government, the banks or directly to the lawyers.

    If it were in the best interests of enough intelligent people, this whole issue could be easily resolved. Sadly, for the most important group, their interests are better served by it not.

  • Eddie 'world citizen' says:

    @Richard. Thanks and noted. I too am engaged here in Cyprus in collaborative efforts on a particular subject (corporate governance and risk management). Our joint efforts are among professionals. We recognize the enormous task we have to change Boardroom attitudes and corporate behaviour but I am very encouraged by everyone’s commitment and determination. So, I am not automatically again the concept.

    My problem with the property scandal is that there are just too many parties with vested interests who want things to stay as they are and against buyers’ interests. They will use any kind of think tank approach as way to talk for ever and a day (if they deign to talk at all)and avoid any kind of change that would upset their corrupt world.

  • Richard says:

    @Eddie WC

    I’m not trying to be either noble or idealistic – so I’m sorry I come across that way.

    I’m trying to be practical. Use of the analogy wasn’t entirely misplaced, but maybe slightly misunderstood. I’m simply referring to a different way of thinking. On Mandela’s release from prison – everyone expected him to retaliate against his former oppressors. He didn’t – and took a more collaborative approach and worked a different strategy from the core outwards. That’s why I think the analogy is relevant. It also worked.

    I’m not looking for the same old same old ‘whitewash’ think tank Eddie – creating the illusion of progress by buggering about on the fringes of the problems. We all know they are useless – and incidentally – are certainly not confined to Cyprus!

    I’m talking about road-testing some more radical ideas. In the UK I run a series of business workshops that simulate turning around a failing company. It’s the talent of the people involved that make/break the success of the outcome – and their thinking.

    We know they work – people do see things differently often when they’ve been through the exercise. The results can be at times very surprising.

    I’m almost suggesting adopting the same ‘what if’ approach here.

    If everything in Cyprus is as bad as many feel it is – then what is there to lose?

  • Eddie 'world citizen' says:

    @Richard. Noble and idealistic sentiments. The analogy with Nelson Mandela is unfortunate. It took decades of armed struggle and him and other ANC leaders in jail before he could get to the opportunity for restructuring/re-stablizing RSA.

    Everyone in Cyprus loves ‘think tanks’ as they enable a lot of chattering, back slapping and mutual admiration to go on for a long long time but without ever producing anything tangible or viable. But the co-operative pretensions look good.

  • Richard says:

    Massively interesting thread this one – and I’ve tried to read as much of it as possible as carefully as possible with time constraints.

    Some interesting data has emerged and with it some viewpoints (if one or two being rather excessively vitriolic & personal).

    I’m of the view that the EU won’t do much left to it’s own devices. Cyprus is a net contributor to the EU rather than a drain on it’s resources. I’m sure the money on the island has seen to it that it remains that way – lessening the potential for unwanted intrusion from the mother-ship.

    To resolve the issues – there has to be a different approach. Protest isn’t entirely futile as it acts as an irritant and is PR-able. It at least keeps the issues in the public eye.

    Beyond that though – is a need to focus on the outcome rather than the dreaded ‘hows’.

    A lot of people will define a successful outcome differently. There will however be a number of common threads. I’m beginning to think that a collective ‘think tank’ approach may be best here.

    The old order with all the money probably need to be persuaded out of the gloom with something here that could benefit them, whilst also benefitting property owners (or those poor sods who still haven’t got any property). The link is probably the younger generation of Cypriots who will be in the throws of taking over the shop.

    What is that something? I wouldn’t be arrogant enough to state I had the answer – but between all the brains on this forum and elsewhere in Cyprus and UK could we not figure out what that could / might be & try and work something out?

    Probably an amalgamation of legal, fiscal, government knowledge coupled to the EU, the web/media and something that takes a stab at fixing some of the older more knotty problems on the island and looking at them from a fresh perspective.

    I understand the emotion of the WW2 analogies – I’ve used them myself, but Spitfires & Hitler aside now – I’m looking to more recent situations like Nelson Mandela’s re-structuring / re-stabilising of South Africa. Here was one guy who thought (and acted) differently to realise some astonishing goals.

    If he can – can’t we?

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    Hi Gavin,

    I wasn’t going to respond (again) as we’ve said all we need to on this. However, call me stubborn, but I can’t let the incorrect military analogies go…

    You mention the Spartans as an example of victory against insurmountable odds. I take it you’re referring to the battle of Thermopylae in 480 BC, yes? We’ve all seen the film (fake abs – I think they were painted on!)

    When Leonidas’ force of approx. 7,000 were going to be outflanked, he dismissed the bulk of the army and stayed with approx 1400 troops (including the 300 Spartans) to guard the rear. They were virtually all killed but the main part of the army got away.

    This was NOT a victory, it was a suicide mission so the rest of the force could fight another day (which they did and won a year later).

    You mention Verdun (something quite dear to my heart for personal reasons)… The most detailed website on the battle of Verdun (http://www.wereldoorlog1418.nl/battleverdun/index.htm#battle01) states: “The battle…. caused over an estimated 700,000 dead, wounded and missing….. From a strategic point of view there can be no justification for these atrocious losses. (it) degenerated into a matter of prestige of two nations literally for the sake of fighting……”

    You recognise that you will be fighting the Cypriot state. They haven’t necessarily caused the problem, but they have introduced laws to protect all the perpetrators and will continue to do so, the main beneficiaries of these policies even you accept as being the lawyers, many of whom fill the benches of the House of Deputies.
    CPAG recognises that fighting the government in Cyprus is not sensible. This is why they wish to “work cooperatively with the Authorities and the industry”. Nigel lists below some of the successes CPAG has had, but we really need to pay attention to his extremely poignant statement that, “Protests & demonstrations raises (sic) awareness of the issues, but they do not actually change anything. But once you have held a few protests, what do you do next?”

    This is NOT a war. Many people are suffering (and, unfortunately, this suffering is only just beginning) but warlike emotion over “fighting wrong-doing” (which is what the French did over Verdun) and this “ils ne passeront pas” attitude belong in Boy’s Own magazine (does it still exist?) and NOT as a response to a government orchestrated Ponzi scheme. Putting more money into the state (through the courts in the countless legal actions that you will be taking to “fight the system”) will result in a calamitous and catastrophic financial defeat. In the battle for “justice” in Cyprus against the Cyprus state, YOU WILL LOSE. They have set out their stall and I am sure no-one can be in any doubt what the ROC’s intentions are over the foreigners’ land issue (because that’s all it is to them).

    An earlier poster (I think it has been withdrawn now) said something like, “Show me one instance of where the EU has made Cyprus do anything” and he is right.

    Leonidas knew that by drawing the Persians to the Hot Gates he could stall Xerxes massive army and the week he bought would allow the Greeks to mobilize. He also knew when to withdraw (and even conducted a suicide mission to allow his troops to escape), Marshall Petain did not and led 540,000 of his countrymen to their deaths or serious injury.
    Do you?

  • andyp says:

    Costas 6.02. I was not being dismissive only suggesting harder than one thinks and any demo must be high impact and well reported to be of any use. I even posted a suggestion for one on Nigel’s forum page a few months ago if you care to look (Cyprus Presidency of Europe). Not much support there either.

    As has been said a run of the mill badly attended demo can have quite the opposite of the intended effect.

    On the other hand quiet diplomacy has it’s place and the CPAG has done more than it’s fare share to alert people to the problems and improve political awareness. It can’t do everything for everyone.

    I am happy to continue my support for CPAG but that does not have to be at the expense of anything else which might help.

  • Vlachos the Impaler says:

    My last word on this thread.

    Noisy demos, T shirts and other in-yer-face activities are tactical and on their own are of limited strategic value. Done sparingly and in a well managed way, in support of a clear strategy, they can sometimes be useful. Done badly and they definitely do more harm than good. I shudder at the prospect of noisy, enthusiastic, well meaning but muddled protesters rushing about with no apparent strategic plan. At most, they will be a minor annoyance to the authorities but their existence and impact will be forgotten within a day or two.

    ‘Action’ should not be confused with frenetic activity. CPAG’s actions are based on a clear strategy. People may agree or disagree with that strategy but it is clear. Concurring with Nigel and others, despite our numerous requests we still have yet to be shown any clear and coherent alternative strategy by the minority who express dissatisfaction with CPAG. We await evidence of their credibility. Res ipsa loquitur.

  • @Costa Costas at 6:19 pm

    If you take the trouble to read the article to which you refer at http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers.com/2007/08/25/expats-form-property-action-group/id=00197 , you will see that it was written by Deena Efstathiou (who I can assure you isn’t me) and was first published in the Cyprus Mail.

    You don’t believe everything you read in the newspapers do you?

    As I said (yawn) CPAG has no members, but many supporters who are dedicated to achieving the aims of the organisation.

    If you do not agree with those aims, it’s fine by me.

  • James JH Lockhart says:

    @Costas I to have been following this thread and would like to ask?

    What is your problem with CPAG is it based on something personal? If so keep it that way instead of posts that give comfort to the Crooks.

  • @Costa Costas – as far as I am aware, CPAG does not have any members – only supporters.

    Either you support what it is endeavouring to achieve or you do not.

    It’s a simple as that.

  • andyp says:

    Costa. Why do you not simply pick a date for a demo, organise it and we can then all find out how easy or otherwise it is to achieve?

  • andyp says:

    I have been reading this thread for a few days.

    I have to agree with Nigel’s post at 1.15. Demos tend to be forgotten and indeed do not have much impact if people do not come out in number.

    Thousands have been affected by these problems but in recent years very few actually turned out for them (maybe 150 at Paphos Harbour) or even appeared in court to support CPAG (on the day I went along I think there were about 2 dozen of us).

  • Gavin Jones says:

    Odd_Job_Bob.

    Yes. It IS about finance but something more fundamental. In this case, restitution of the right to control something, be it to keep or dispose of, as and when the individual chooses to so do.

    In the title deed scenario, the state, by condoning and therefore in conjunction with property developers, lawyers and bankers, has conspired to dupe purchasers of real estate of that right to do precisely that.

    The state is guilty of allowing third parties to steal huge sums of money from unsuspecting victims because these ‘parties’ are denying the purchasers legal ownership for the goods that they’ve purchased. Not only that, they’ve looked the other way as those assets have been furtively retained and used as collateral. The state is therefore as guilty as the perpetrators, if not more so.

    And yes. I will fight wrongdoing if I see it, even when the odds seem insurmountable. Isn’t that the right thing to do?
    You write, “this isn’t war”. I beg to differ. People might not be in a Verdun trench but thousands of people are fighting a mental war of attrition which is costing them not only money but health and peace of mind – and they won’t give up.

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    Hi Denton.
    No, I was quoting Gavin quoting Unbelievable. There should have been double speech marks at the beginning of the sentence, as there were at the end. Sorry.

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    Gavin, you do like your military analogies, don’t you?

    You appear to be a man of principle who is passionate about wishing to fight wrongdoing and corruption “wherever we find it”. Am I wrong?

    OK, here goes (Sun Tzu, the Art of War): “And therefore those skilled in war bring the enemy to the field of battle and are not brought there by him”

    You don’t fight him on his chosen ground with his rules, judges, linesmen and court of appeal.

    But, this isn’t war (as such). If most people were told, here’s your money, now leave Cyprus, I suspect the vast majority would take it.

    So, this is about finance.

    In banking, we have a saying: “Never make financial decisions for emotional reasons”.

    Rolling over and playing dead is NOT what I’m advocating, hitting him where it hurts is. It MAY get you some money back at some point, chances are it won’t.

    With regards to point scoring over each other: Not interested. I’m too far ahead…..(joke).

  • @Costa Costas at 11:36 am – thank you for the Knighthood, I’ll be waiting for my invitation to the palace.

    I am a supporter of CPAG – and different supporters provide their support in different ways.

    @Costa Costas at 12:08 pm – isn’t it more productive to take action to enlist the support of those with more influence to change things through diplomatic and political efforts?

    Do you believe that the Government would have been ‘encouraged’ to amend the laws if diplomatic pressure had not been brought to bear?

    Would Alyn Smith MEP warned his constituents not to buy property in Cyprus had he not been contacted by CPAG supporters?

    Protests & demonstrations raises awareness of the issues, but they do not actually change anything. But once you have held a few protests, what do you do next?

    As you may be aware, the original aim of CPAG was to: “work cooperatively with the Authorities and the industry to safeguard this revenue by ensuring that Cyprus property can be promoted as a quality product and a sound investment in a properly regulated and sustainable environment.

  • Denton Mackrell says:

    @Odd Job Bob. You allege that it was Gavin who said ‘The developers and lawyers have plenty of hard cash and can survive for many years….’ Actually, that was from Unbelievable on May 2 at 11.18.

  • Gavin Jones says:

    Odd_Job_Bob.

    You say, “Do you NOW see what you are up against?” I say, “So what. Bring it on.”

    Are you therefore intimating that we should all be ‘realistic’, accept the status quo, roll over and be grateful for small mercies (if and when we receive them) because the dice are stacked against us? Go tell that to the Spartans.

    If you have the time and inclination, DO logon to the Daily Telegraph and have a look at the obituary of a soldier who won the Victoria Cross TWICE, once in Crete and again in the Western Desert.

    I know that the set or circumstances here can hardly be compared to what he did, but somewhat inspirational nevertheless and a marker as to what WE should be doing in relation to corruption – wherever we find it.

    You “well ahead” in points scoring? I’ll let others be the judge of that.

  • @Costa Costas – people have been whinging about BPAG as well – see http://www.bulgariandeals.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=59

    It seems that however much people try and help, there will be others who rubbish what they are doing – without offering a viable alternative.

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    This is a really long one, for which I apologise, but I’m afraid it has to be done…

    Gavin, I agree that we could go back and forwards on this forever, each scoring points over the other (even though, obviously I clearly believe I’m well ahead…).

    However, one of the things in particular that you’ve said is GLARINGLY, GLARINGLY wrong (sorry, no punches pulled here as even YOU have accepted it is wrong).

    In your comment today, dated 5 May 6.57 am, you state, “We ALL know what’s going on here and it’s in everybody’s interests to clean up this mess, most of all that of Cyprus”

    However, in your comment on May 2, 2011 at 3:49 pm, you state (twice actually):

    “The developers and lawyers have plenty of hard cash and can survive…”. Er, no. No guesses as to which body of worthies this does NOT apply to.”

    By this, I presume you mean the lawyers have the cash, not the developers?

    In the same comment, you go on to say, “I suspect that nobody, apart from the lawyers, is laughing, and certainly not the banks and the government which is propping them up.”

    An earlier poster commented that some 70% of deputies are lawyers…

    So, there IS a group whose best interests it certainly is NOT to clean this up, as they are benefitting personally directly from it.

    Listen to this VERY TRUE STORY. A friend of a friend, as I’ve mentioned in earlier posts, had this great idea of how to solve this property issue. He got together a little team and approached a number of developers in deep, deep d#* d#+ with the idea and three of them, with medium-sized portfolios said, “Great!”

    However, they did not know the details of what they owned, what they owed, what percentage sales penetration of existing stock they needed in order to service existing debt etc etc. They said, “My trusted adviser, who has been in the family for centuries (Solicitor/ Accountant) knows all the details, ask him.”
    The f-of-a-f’s little team approach the Trusted Adviser saying “Property Developer has given us the authority to speak to you re: the details of the portfolio” (proofs were furnished). Guess what the TA said?
    Correct, an emphatic “Ohi!”

    All three of them gave these reasons ( the first two reasons not explicitly, the last one they actually DID state (which was a major shock to the team, actually)!

    1) My property developer is basically a peasant who has never been to university and doesn’t understand the finance of the whole thing. I have thus set up lending arrangements etc more in my best interests than his. I do not want some independent person poking their nose in as it will make me look bad

    2) I am the trusted adviser to the whole family and have been for years. I wish to remain in this exalted position and continue to milk him and everyone he deals with who he refers to me, for years

    3) (and this is the killer) If the PD goes bankrupt, I stand to get a big, fat payday through the insolvency proceedings. Unless you pay me a large chunk of change NOW, I will not give you a damned thing.

    Why is this all relevant and how does this relate to 1974?

    The Cyprus lawyers know that the EU do nothing and can therefore act with impunity. They have a sense of injustice re: the EU (even though some of them never lost a dime in ’74, unlike you). They know they can create their own “special situation” here without fear of any sanction and fill their boots (especially with the EU grant money, ex-pat purchases, demanding further money from ex-pats after purchase etc etc, as well as being the people the expats HAVE to turn to to get any justice). They know the strategic importance of Cyprus so that any sanction would have to be a slap on the wrist if any, as a hostile Cyprus threatening to retake the Sovereign Base Areas is a headache the EU and Nato don’t need (watch in the news this threat recurring on a regular basis).

    Earlier posters have said that these new laws do nothing to solve the problem but get money in for the government. They have said lawyers here have done so many dirty deeds but NOT ONE (unlike anywhere else in the world), has EVER been struck off.

    Will Cyprus’ international reputation be damaged by these sully deeds? Undoubtedly! Will the lawyers have lined their pockets and ferret their money offshore? Unfortunately, I was one of that banker breed whose job it was to make sure that happens!

    Another poster (Unbelievable, I believe) said there are more millionaires here per capita than the UK, but they just don’t show it (as most of their wealth doesn’t remain here). We’ve a good idea who they are…
    Alyn Smith said that Christofias’ non-response to his two letters was a “serious breach of protocol”, which is diplomatic speak for, “He told us to do the shepherd thing (i.e. get the flock out of here)” Hence why he said, effectively, forget it mate, we can’t do anything here.

    There are those who form their opinions, then look at the facts to see if they concur with those opinions – sometimes, they don’t. There are those who look at the facts then form their opinion. Their opinion always concurs. I know which one I do.

    Do you NOW see what you are up against? WE are the away team at Old Trafford…

  • Denton Mackrell says:

    @Costa. I read your quotation as meaning ‘here are the members of the formative group’ in the ordinary English meaning of member. It does not say they are officers or a formal committee. Nor does it mention a consitution that requires a formal membership.

  • Gavin Jones says:

    Odd_Job_Bob.

    I note your comments.

    No doubt we could go dance round the maypole interminably scoring points but suffice it to say that I’m sure that we all wish to see all this jiggery-pokery resolved and decisive action taken to resolve what is clearly fraudulent and hardly transparent behaviour by the usual suspects: government, property developers, lawyers and banks. We ALL know what’s going on here and it’s in everybody’s interests to clean up this mess, most of all that of Cyprus.

    I do feel, however, that trying to park this chicanery onto the island’s strategic position and comparing it to the events of 1974 are somewhat of a cop out. This sort of excuse is regularly trotted out almost as justification for out-and-out theft. Make no mistake, the Title Deeds scandal IS theft and on a massive scale. The fact that I and tens of thousands have lost their homes and businesses in Famagusta and elsewhere is a total irrelevance in relation to what we’re discussing here.

    I rest my case.

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    Gavin, with respect, if you are to compare “the artful ways” of places outside of Cyprus and what goes on here then you have completely and totally missed my point. This place is UNIQUE, for a number of reasons, but mostly because of its importance to Nato and the West. The events of 1974 have SO much to do with the present property situation, but if you wish to conduct your approach buoyed by such statements as “Justice will prevail” (Ask the Cypriots re: the Turkish invasion if that’s always the case) and “whatever it takes and whatever it costs” (Greek king Pyrrhus, from whom we get the expression “pyrrhic victory”, would again disagree), then I suppose you’ll have to go ahead and see what happens.

    However, I am NOT comparing your stand to the swivel-eyed lunacy of desperate dictators, if that’s what you are implying! Remember, we’re on the same side here, we just have a different approach.

    As for effectiveness of night bombing raids during the Battle of Britain, initially the RAF and the AA battalions were pants but by May 1941, Bristol Beaufighters were swatting bombers out of the sky (22 shot down using on-board night-time radar in May alone). Not that it’s relevant but I DID look it up though, showing how sad I truly am!

    Oh, and the Soviet Union beat the Germans, not because they pursued their goal in the face of adversity etc, but because a two-front war, when one front is the vast expanses of the Russian Empire, is unwinnable. Napoleon, Bismark, the German High Command even, knew that. So did Stalin.

    I will however pay close attention to your developments. Best of luck (I actually DO mean it!)

  • Gavin Jones says:

    Odd_Job_Bob.

    Rest assured that I certainly have not “missed your point” and am more than well aware of “what is actually happening here”.

    I’m fully conversant with the mindset that is de rigueur on the island as I’ve have had a lifetime’s experience of the permutations of the ‘artful ways’ as practised here.

    Justice WILL prevail and without pursuing a certain path towards obtaining it, we might as well all roll over and accept our fate. That option might be some people’s choice (most?) but it certainly isn’t mine: whatever it takes and whatever it costs.

    Incidentally, I consider that your analogy of the Japanese at Okinawa and Hitler’s exhortations from the Fuhrerbunker is hardly comparable to what we’re discussing here. You may well disagree but again, that’s your prerogative.

    As an aside, ultimately Hitler’s bombers switched to night bombing after which the RAF were only able to knock the odd one down.

    As for the Russians, they may have lost 25+ million soldiers and civilians, but they pursued their goal and ‘won’, despite Stalin’s paranoia, 1937 executions of his military hierarchy and “scorched earth” policy.

    Watch this and all the other spaces.

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    Hi Eddie,

    In my comment on May 2 at 9.50 pm, when I advocated a “scorched earth” policy, I expressly stated that it was just so we don’t lose any more money. It would NOT make the Cyprus authorities change tack.
    Nothing will.

    So, if you’re waiting for my suggestions on how to make CPAG more effective, you’ll be waiting a very long time…

    My only suggestion is, in the words of the French:, “Sauve qui peut!”

  • Eddie 'world citizen' says:

    Really looking forward to whatever this entirely new action body will be, its detailed objectives and action plan and seeing Costa Costas, Unbelievable and Odd Job putting their ‘good suggestions’ into practice. Er… still mystified as what they are actually going to DO! Mais neanmoins, aux barricades mes braves!!

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    Gavin: I truly commend your fighting spirit. But I think you’re missing the point. I am also grateful to your Dad and others like him for what they did in the RAF (and I actually joined the Air Training Corps so I could be just like them! Hated it though…). The strategy though there was to buy time until the Americans eventually joined in. Plus we had a number of technical advantages (Spits manoeuvrability, home advantage so more fuel in dogfights, plus they had a MAD leader who switched the focus from bombing RAF bases to London, thus making his bombers have to fly OVER the RAF bases to get to London making them sitting targets etc)

    We can talk military history until we’re blue in the face, but “fighting to the last man” (Japanese in Okinawa, Hitler’s commands to all Germans in the last days of the war etc) are not sensible or serious ways to achieve your objective. It just results in death.

    If you believe that by fighting the “bad guys”, in whatever way you choose, will result in your eventual victory, then of course you should continue.

    You have not bought into my idea of what is actually happening here, but that is completely your prerogative.

    I fear that by the time you do, you will have lost significantly more money than you possibly already have. Even Stalin knew when to retreat (leaving scorched earth in the red Army’s wake…)

    Best of luck though (as our equivalent of the Americans is the EU…)

  • Unbelievable says:

    Dear Nigel,

    My final comment sir..

    No one is really interested in a Proper Action Group!
    Costa Costas and myself have made good suggestions. Would you not agree Nigel? We as minor individuals Don’t have all the answers, so please don’t expect them.

    No one wants to put together a Shame List!
    Shame List Nigel, not trustworthy lawyers. shame the deceitful Developers and Lawyers. Estates agents are all the same anyway. FYI, I have used a lawyer listed on the BHC. They were helpful but in the end it was obvious they shoulder up with the Cypriot system. Please don’t try to tell me otherwise Nigel!

    No one wants to Protest outside the London Cypriot Embassy!
    So that was a one hit wonder then. Never to be repeated again in larger numbers? Core, you guys really mean business don’t you.

    No one wants to Protest at UK property exhibitions!
    I Googled and found 10 for UK 2011 – most of which CPAG have already missed…WHY?

    Where is Denis?
    I’m not interested in his holiday trips. He’s absent from this forum and CPAG website? One man can’t be in two places at once, as Costa Costas suggests. appoint a committee or does Denis see this as a personal crusade?

    Sorry Nigel, I didn’t mean you are Chairman of CPAG. I was referring to Mr Denis.

    Finally, I strongly believe you and Denis are truly great men. You give you time and effort for free which is very generous of you both. No pressure like :-)

  • Denton Mackrell says:

    I note that a number of times posters have referred to CPAG ‘members’. As I understand it, CPAG has never had any members, only supporters.

    I recall when CPAG started up there were very sound legal and practical reasons why it had no formal structure, formal membership and membership fees. I would guess that this situation has not changed.

    If some people are now chafing at the bit and want a different kind of organisation with members, membership fees, committee(s), officers etc etc then it is their prerogative to form one. Clearly it cannot be called CPAG or some close variant but I am sure the creative minds of Costa & co will invent an appropriate name for their new body. Meanwhile, I reckon that most people will stick with CPAG as the known quantity.

  • @Unbelievable

    No one is really interested in a Proper Action Group.

    If someone could tell me what a ‘proper’ action is, I might be interested. People are knocking CPAG but seem unwilling or unable to suggest what action an alternative group would take. Not even Costa Costa, the most vociferous person in the discussion, can offer one single suggestion as to what an alternative action group would do.

    No one wants to put together a Shame List.

    There are lists of trustworthy lawyers available that offer independent legal advice – you’ll find them on this website.

    No one wants to Protest outside the London Cypriot Embassy.

    A vigil has been held outside the Cyprus High Commission at St James’ Square in London. What would be the objective of holding another one?

    No one wants to Protest at UK property exhibitions.

    Oh yes they do – they’re on the drawing board.

    And where is Denis?

    I expect Denis is in Paphos today.

    I’m not chairman of CPAG, I am a supporter. But all I see here is a load of whingers wanting something ‘different’ without being able to explain what they would do.

  • Unbelievable says:

    Dear Nigel,

    I have posted dozens of comments on numerous articles on this website with suggestions.

    No one is really interested in a Proper Action Group.
    No one wants to put together a Shame List.
    No one wants to Protest outside the London Cypriot Embassy.
    No one wants to Protest at UK property exhibitions.

    And where is Denis?

    For Gods sake man, come out and say something positive please!

    You have appointed yourself Chairman of CPAG (in the public domain). Now come out and take a stand please.

    Thank you

  • @Costa Costas & @Unbelievable – you have been talking a lot about talk of action, but absolutely no inkling of what that action would involve.

    Talk of setting up companies, appointing a board of directors, etc, etc. What would be their purpose?

    For the benefit of all the readers, please elaborate.

  • Unbelievable says:

    I agree with both Odd_Job_Bob & Costa Costas.

    Unless CPAG or any other Action Group stand up and take real action, then you will still be fighting,demanding and asking the same questions 50yrs from now.

    @Odd_Job_Bob – I play chess and understand your game plan. The Cypriots however, like to play Backgammon. They like to play fast and make lots of noises. Hands flying everywhere and dice picked up very quickly. Very confusing if you’re not used to it. Oh, and cheating is accepted if you’re not watching closely enough – your own fault.

    @Costa Costas – agree that CPAG cannot be run by one man on donations. Like every syndicate, every member needs to contribute financially. Have a committee. A Secretary. Chairman. open book on accounts and General Meetings.

    In the words of Odd_Job_Bob….There Is Nothing More For Me TO Say.

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  • Gavin Jones says:

    Odd_Job_Bob (8.44 a.m.).

    So it’s official then.

    We DO live in a totally corrupt state, we shouldn’t be surprised, can’t/mustn’t do anything about it, accept our fate, let the ‘bad guys’ get away with it and continue to “fleece” (if they can) and go down with the proverbial Titanic.

    Hm. My father was based at Tangmere during the Battle of Britain and hardly a week goes by when I don’t mentally thank him and the handful of others who didn’t quite see it that way and “resign once defeat was virtually assured BEFORE the end game.”

    And neither will I…

  • Vlachos the Impaler says:

    @Costa. Just checked my BP at 118/85 and pulse slow and steady, as always petal. Have re-read your last post and can still find nothing of value or merit in it. RIP Costa Costas – he/she rose without trace.

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    Andyp: good on you mate!

    There are another couple of topics up (State Sponsored Fleecing etc), on which I have not commented, where posters have expressed incredulity, surprise, anger, astonishment etc at what new things are transpiring here re: property. For me, everything that is happening is following it’s natural course, when one subscribes to a particular view (much expressed already so no need to repeat).

    Vlad and Costa Costas have also got into this spat about who should reveal who they are and who shouldn’t (again, I would have to side with CC as this is an anonymous forum – posters have the choice to reveal or not. If there are some developers on the forum and people who do NOT share the majority view, I think that’s GREAT!!).

    To my mind though, this dispute is irrelevant as it seems a bit like rearranging the deckchairs (on the Titanic…).

    I don’t know if anyone here plays chess? There are generally 3 phases of the game: the opening gambits during which there is a struggle to gain the tiniest advantage. Then there’s the middle bit when that advantage is pressed home and the outcome is more or less decided (barring any major slip-ups). Then there is the end game, which basically is virtually all predetermined as the eventual outcome has already been decided during the middle bit.

    Experienced players resign once defeat is virtually assured BEFORE the end game.

    If people are still surprised by the daily revelations in Cyprus, there is nothing more for me to say….

  • andyp says:

    @OJB/UNB..

    The majority of my cash is gone. I take no credit cards or loans from Cyprus Banks and no car or house insurance from Cyprus Banks.

    @ Nigel. Have you had a day off recently? You must be due at least one.

  • Vlachos the Impaler says:

    @Costa. All you’ve told us that you are angry and want to charge around like a bull in a china shop. But I see no clear action plan geared to meeting specific objectives. Noisy activity and selling T shirts does not impress me. Help us all out here, please – otherwise how can you expect to have any credibility?

  • Vlachos the Impaler says:

    Unbelievable is quite right it does not matter whether this Costa Costas is a man or a woman but it DOES matter that we are told who he/she is. We have all the details about Denis but for all we know this Costa Costas could be a practical joker, an agent provocateur, a front for a developer or any manner of things. No one is going to back him/her until and unless they know who and what they are being asked to support.

  • Unbelievable says:

    It’s not import whether we are Male or Female. Or who we work for or whether our email address is hidden. It doesn’t matter how we spell our name.

    Lets stick to the agenda. Most people on this forum have lost or could lose plently of CASH – ouch!

    Denis, Oh Denis. where art thou my friend. You’ve gone quiet on us mate?

    Will CPAG & LBAG be joining forces at the next UK property show. You guys can make a big difference with your banners (naming names if you dare) Why not invite Conor as well.

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    Bodo-san.
    Glad to hear about your disinvestment. I get what you mean about the property “mess” as well.

    Gavin, thanks for your comments.

    I do completely agree with Unbelievable that Cyprus is unique because of its history. I came here without knowing enormous amounts about what happened here since British rule began way back when and certainly almost nothing about the real reasons behind 1974 and the subsequent feeling Cypriots have for the external powers that be.

    All the recent bills being passed into law, all the actions of various overlapping vested-interest protectionist groups (lawyers, government ministers, developers), all the stories you hear of extortion and coercion and threats and new ways to get money out of us are all completely consistent with a particular view.

    I wish that I were wrong, but I really don’t think so.

  • Unbelievable says:

    Odd_Job_Bob at 09:50pm

    You’ve summed it up nicely. Glad to finally hear someone talking sense. Couldn’t have put it better myself and that’s coming from a Cypriot with a Large Cyprus family!

    Oh, isn’t it terrible British to keep a stiff upper lip, continue to handover your cash on a monthly basis to the naughty Cypriot crooks. Please don’t complain and please don’t mention names – it’s awfully rude you know!

    Please continue to lobby (lobby, such a nice word) but please do it quietly from your own homes. Don’t litter the streets. Just write nice polite letters to MEPs and local MPs. One hopes in anticipation they may receive a reply from the Cyprus Ministers in-between coffee breaks.

    Don’t even think of bring Cyprus to its knees. OMG, how will those poor poor Cypriots live. How will the Mercedes get serviced? Kids overseas University fees paid? Future Property investments funded? (without Title Deeds). House maids fees?

    Please, Please, Please continue to give Cyprus all your money including your life savings and pensions funds. Please. You don’t need Title Deeds and nor do your kids. You British are loaded with plenty of spare cash.

    We all know Cyprus TAX system is flawed. VAT is flouted. Corporation TAX very low and personal TAX allowance good. But Cypriots still need your CASH – Give Generously…OK

    BTW – Greece has just been told to clean up its TAX (evasion) collecting. This will be overseen by Swiss authorities to monitor Greek deposits.

  • Vlachos the Impaler says:

    @Denton. Sorry my 9.28am post accidentally omitted ‘As Denton has said’. Copied some of your wording!!

  • Vlachos the Impaler says:

    @Costa Costas at 10.02pm. You seem to be proposing a new ‘ACTION’ group, presumably with you at the helm given all the denigrating comments about CPAG you keep making. So, please post your list of ‘actions’ you will take, your objectives, your resources, your credentials etc so that we can all examine their worth. We already know all these things vis-a-vis CPAG but not about you. Also, we must now be told who you are. After all, no one is going to support a nameless someone!

    I suspect, however, that you will suddenly go silent. All you really have to offer are malicious and sinister snipings which make you sound more like someone scorned with a grudge against CPAG than a genuine campaigner. The name Costa Costas is bad Greek and clearly you are not a Cypriot. Are you a he or a she?

  • Gavin Jones says:

    Odd_Job_Bob (6.36 p.m. yesterday).

    Point taken about your figure of 1.5 million applying to unsold properties and NOT to developer indebtedness to the banks.

    I suspect that Nigel Howarth’s estimate of unsold properties is near the mark.

    Have appreciated your and Unbelievable’s passionate and erudite ‘offerings’ on this topic: a far cry and a welcome change from some of the more insulting examples that we’ve been subjected to until recently on the Cyprus Mail website from the likes of we know who. Thank you.

    Bondo-San (8.04 p.m. yesterday).

    “Revolution?” Now there’s a thought.

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    Dear Nigel,

    I take your points on board. The “1.5 million unsold properties” does seem high (not my figure though!), but I would say 20,000 is extremely low. If anyone does have an accurate figure though, I would love to know it!

    The big developments in Limassol are the marina and that Israeli-built tower (near TGI’s on the seafront road). There are a few more as well…

    These antiparochi agreements are probably amongst the worst of all worlds! Developers promise to develop land and give a number of the completed properties to the land owners. I know of many instances whereby after the properties are built (and presumably some sold), the land owner gets less than the agreed number of properties (as the developer has cheated him, sold them and pocketed the money). The bank loan taken out to develop the land may be in the developer’s name but it is secured on the land, so any default and the bank comes after the purchaser on sold property, the land owner on unsold. Any IPT due is liable to the land owner on ALL the properties, not just on the ones he was promised, as it’s all still in his name and any building regulations infringements, fees for connection of services etc are all the responsibility of the landowner. A chicken dinner as far as the developer is concerned!

    The most important point though re: the proposed action below (which may “bring the Cypriot economy to its knees”) is this: how serious are the consequences for the present property purchasers in the current environment?

    Is their present situation solvable? Is there sufficient will on the part of those in a position to solve it, for it to be solved? Is the money sunk into property here already lost?

    If the answers are yes, yes, no, then the path I suggest is NOT a good idea. With more work, dedication, lobbying, letter writing, naming and shaming etc, we could get there in the end.

    If the answers are any different, and I completely and totally believe they are (more like yes, no, yes), then consequences for the purchaser could not get any more serious. The ONLY good idea is to get out now and withdraw all you can.

    Guides to how to navigate your way through this minefield are great, but as a previous poster said, new ways are being devised all the time to part us from our money. Some may think it’s worth taking the risk, I, and Alyn Smith, believe we should “steer clear of the place”.

  • Bondo-san says:

    @Odd Job. You’ll be pleased to know that I and a lot of others are already doing very much as you suggest on the disinvestment front and reducing our cash/deposit exposures here.

    BTW I used the term ‘mess’ in the systems sense i.e. a system of problems that defies resolution simply by trying to solve component problems one by one. That mess has been deliberately created by the conspirators i.e. the system owners.

  • Denton Mackrell says:

    @ Costa.

    You seem to be suggesting forming an alternative to CPAG – some sort of ‘ACTION’ group. With you presumably at the helm, as you seem to be so keen to denigrate CPAG? Please give us a list of the actions you propose so that we can evaluate their worth. Surely you can at the same time reveal who you are. Can’t back someone we don’t even know!!

  • @Odd_Job_Bob at 9:50 pm

    I personally do not believe that adopting a strategy that could potentially bring the Cypriot economy to its knees would be a good idea. It could result in severe consequences affecting thousands of people, including ‘the man on the Clapham omnibus’.

    Pressure needs to be maintained on TPTB to reduce the risks associated with buying property here – and potential buyers need advice on how to negotiate their way around the pitfalls.

    You will have no doubt seen that some people want more direct action but have not (as yet) mentioned what exactly this ‘direct action’ would entail.

  • @Odd_Job_Bob – 1.5 million unsold properties is a huge exaggeration; I think 20,000 (a year’s supply) would be a more realistic figure.

    In Limassol, we don’t suffer from the big developments and I don’t see too many ‘for sale’ signs or empty property.

    Driving around, I have seen a lot of part-completed developments in the Paphos and Larnaca areas; not quite so many in Famagusta. It seems that it is seaside towns that are suffering the most from oversupply.

    As for the continuing construction works, I have been advised by someone who should know that much of this is due to αντιπαροχή (antiparochi) agreements.

    For the benefit of those who are not familiar with this term, it is where a land owner provides land to a developer in exchange for a number of properties that the developer is building on that land. (It’s a system that’s also employed in Greece).

    Apparently, these antiparochi agreements have severe penalties for non/delayed performance.

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    Bondo-san,
    Just because I disagree with you doesn’t make the view I have expressed embittered.

    Everything I have said can be verified by lots of different sources (but then your counter argument could be they are all embittered as well…)

    The EU and possibly the Euro may well struggle on (previous attempts at a single currency – the Latin Monetary Union and the Scandinavian MU lasted a few years before being consigned to the waste bin of history) but that is irrelevant. Bottom line is the EU won’t interfere in Cyprus property problems as it has bigger fish to fry (and hopefully now you believe Alyn Smith!)

    The serious question though is what to do now?

    The very best thing you can do is to catch the very last place in the last lifeboat from the last rescuing Viking ship (please see Erik the Viking clip). That’s if you can find anybody mug enough to buy from you.

    If you can’t, then the only other sensible thing is to hit the ROC government where it hurts: in the pocket!

    An earlier poster referred to Sun Tzu’s Art of War for how to battle the Cyprus establishment (cos that’s what we’re up against). One of my favourite quotes is this:

    “He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.”

    Simply put (and this is very stark): You must consider any money invested in Cyprus as lost.

    You must warn the people who the Cyprus government are now targeting to not invest (in the big projects like the marinas, luxury golf course developments, tallest tower in the world nonsense etc).

    You must NOT PAY A PENNY MORE into the Cyprus system. Did you read about the guy who was asked to cough up another €5,000 for his deeds BY LAND REGISTRY! Do not pay your mortgage if you feel information was unfairly withheld (if you have one), do not pay your IPT (as it’s not yours anyway), DO NOT PAY THE DEVELOPERS MORTGAGE, NOR HIS FINES, NOR ANYTHING ELSE. Make sure you don’t have seize-able property anywhere else in the eurozone though!

    Withdraw all your savings from Cyprus banks, switch all your investments, leave a ground zero scorched earth desert (figuratively, not literally). Then maybe go back home.

    Will this make the government take notice and change tack?

    No. Nothing will. It just saves you wasting any more money.

    You will still have your life, your health, hopefully some money left over and a very sobering experience that may serve as a lesson for the rest of your days.

    Lastly, this is not a property mess. It is a conspiracy conducted by some very clever people to fleece us of our money. If we regard it as such, it’ll make disinvestment a much easier pill to swallow.

  • Unbelievable says:

    Listen to Odd_Job_Bob

    It pays to know your history when dealing with little old Cyprus.

    What really happened in 1960?
    What then happened between 1960-1974?
    How do the Cypriots really feel towards Americans and British? (especially the British Bases)
    What have the Americans & EU done for Cyprus since 1974?

    What have the TRNC been doing with Title Deeds since 1974?

    When you know the answers to all of the above, only then will you realise the true scale of all this and where you fit in.

    If Cyprus falls back to its Cypriot Pound, I bet they will do very well from the switch over…and then what will your investments be worth then?

    Cyprus has more millionaires per capita than the UK. You wouldn’t think so just looking around but believe me, most Cypriots will never show their wealth because they simply don’t want to. No private jets, helicopters or limo’s needed here.

    They’ve taken your money and that will do very nicely thank you :-)

  • Bondo-san says:

    @Odd Job. Sorry to hear such an embittered view, although I can understand where it’s coming from. Regrettably, you may be right that the EU is in deep doo-doo but I reckon it will struggle on for decades and way beyond our lifetime. If, as you believe, the EU cannot and will not do anything to sort out the criminal conspiracy that perpetuates the property mess here, what is the alternative? Acceptance? Suicide? Poison the foreign buyer market (already done)? Denial of money and investments to Cyprus by foreign buyers and tourists (already being done)? Elimination ‘with extreme prejudice’ of all the bad guys)? Revolution?

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    Gavin: The figure I heard was 1.5 million UNSOLD properties, not debt (i.e. 2 for every 1 person living here). This may be exaggerated, but it IS clear there is a massive oversupply and developers are STILL building…

    Bondo-san: The man said what the man said. I actually did read the Scottish Sunday Post on 24 April and, apart from “urging Scots not to buy property in Cyprus AT ALL” (not my capitals), Alyn Smith says of Cyprus that “People should steer clear of the place”. When you add these statements to the “There is little I, nor anyone, can do” one, if you wish to conclude that what he means is, “But my fellow MEPS and I will sort it all out!” then go ahead mate!

    You drastically overestimate the powers of the EU. What is the greatest injustice in any EU state over the last 50 years? The Turkish invasion of Northern Cyprus (yes, they had their reasons but we’re not discussing that now).

    What has the EU done about it?
    All complaints before the EUCHR now have to pass before the TRNC Immovable Property Commission BEFORE the EUCHR will even look at them (a case of “Please Mr Wolf, I know you’ve eaten my family, but could you judge how much compensation to give me?”)! To be fair to the IPC though, those who have passed through have said they’ve done a fairly decent job (but I digress).

    So, for political expediency (not wanting to pee off Turkey for later EU inclusion etc), the EU has allowed a rather larger issue than our one to go unchallenged.

    The EU now has another major issue on its hands – the fate of the euro (as some Currency Speculators like to call it, Eurogeddon!) The euro is doomed and will be split (don’t take my word for it, there’s plenty of independent analysis on the internet, but this one is my favourite though: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-16/euro-dominos-will-fall-until-currency-is-split-commentary-by-matthew-lynn.html).

    The EU is desperate to keep it together and are doing all sorts of weird and wonderful fiancial acrobatics to keep countries in (look at Angela Merkel’s draft bottom spanking proposals for Greece in December and compare them to the ones recently submitted. Greece will still say no though!)

    How important are we to the EU in the general scheme of things?

    Will a weakened EU (with Germany plus a few other north-Europe others) give a fig about any breakwaway poor southern relative (with screwed up laws which probably caused their financial demise anyway)?

    Last point (to echo Unbelievable): over the last 37 years, Cyprus has seen what the EU have done to sort out the Cypprob (nothing). They have seen what it’s done to sort out the many, MANY non-complied-to EU directives since 2004 (nothing). The Cyrpus establishment has made a decision with regards to what notice it has to take of the EU…

    Unless of course, you can find evidence to the contrary…

  • Vlachos the Impaler says:

    @Unbelievable. I didn’t say the EU has “a list of dodgy developers and the like” but it is certainly true that they have been presented with a large number of complaints by MEPs. Some of these cite specific developers by name e.g. George Lyon MEP and Roland Clark MEP independently citing Alpha Panareti, whereas others are generic e.g. Ashley Fox MEP and Alyn Smith MEP. For example:

    http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers.com/2011/04/07/alpha-panareti-named-in-mep-question/id=007361
    http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers.com/2011/02/11/cyprus-developer-alpha-panareti-named-in-mep-question/id=006845
    http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers.com/2010/09/10/europe-says-developers-in-breach-of-eu-directive/id=005542

    In addition, I know that the details of the Conor O’Dwyer case including the name of the developer Karayiannis were in the hands of his MP and MEP, with the intention of a complaint to the EU.

    Given the welter of complaints to MEPs beyond the few developer names that have been cited publicly, I would guess also that there is probably an unofficial list of the targets of complaints circulating among MEPs and EU officials which will inform any forthcoming wider investigation.

  • Unbelievable says:

    Odd_Job_Bob

    Spot on. Glad you understand what is reality and what is just Hope.

    I know we all need hope in our lives, but Cypriot crooks are hard and slimy to nail down.

    Like I’ve said before..blah blah,

    37yrs Cyprus has been asking the Americans & EU to help kick out TRNC and return everything to pre 1974.

    37yrs later – No one wants to help Cyprus, so Cyprus has helped themselves by stitching up everyone with dodgy Title Deed promises.

    You getting the picture now?

    @Vlachos – you say the EU has a list of dodgy developers and like.. Is this public information or grape vine gossip?

    I find this all very strange that so many take time to join forums and write comments but are too afraid to name and shame. Most odd?

    If we were talking about dodgy car garages, I bet we would all be advising where Not to take your car.

    btw – I’m not caught up in Title Deed issue. Why am I here commenting? because I’m interested in the fight you guys are making and don’t want to see others conned. This is a disgusting dirty trick that Cyprus has played and they should be brought to justice !

  • Bondo-san says:

    Bondo-san to Odd Job. I think you make far too much of a couple of words that Alyn Smith MEP apparently once said. If he meant it literally in the way that you interpret, he would have given up there and then. Why has he done so much of ‘getting nowhere’ as you see it and why is he still leading the charge as far as Scotland is concerned? You need to read the sub-text of the whole and not grab at a couple of words.

    Believing that Cyprus is somewhere immune to the EU or indeed to any outside pressures is a very ethno-centric and unrealistic view. Cyprus is not the centre of the universe and is not in sole control of its destiny. The tiny Cyprus ‘tail’ will not be allowed to wag the giant EU ‘dog’. Difficult and stubborn the oligarchs and all their hangers-on may well be. But, with acknowledgements to Mendel Rivers, Charles Colson and others, when you’ve got ’em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow. Balls in this context means e.g. famine conditions in the Cyprus property market for years to come, 6bn Euro developer mortgage debt in a continuing flat market, closing down of errant Cypriot developers’ sales and agent ops in other EU member states, more developers joining Froiber and SNK in the trashcan, EU Commission declarations that Cyprus is acting illegally etc etc.

  • Gavin Jones says:

    Unbelievable (11.18 a.m.).

    Your third paragraph begins, “The developers and lawyers have plenty of hard cash and can survive…”. Er, no. No guesses as to which body of worthies this does NOT apply to.

    Odd_Job_Bob (2.37 p.m.).

    I presume your figure in paragraph five of “1.5 million” should have read 1.5 billion. Notwithstanding that, I understand that the true debt figure owed by the developers to the banks is nearer 6 BILLION.
    I suspect that nobody, apart from the lawyers, is laughing, and certainly not the banks and the government which is propping them up.

    dimitri (11.39 a.m.).

    Quite. Indeed “that it is Cyprus justice for you”.

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    Vlad, as much as I hate to have to disagree with you, I think the statement that the scandal and its possible resolution have shifted from Nicosia to Brussels is not correct.

    In the words of the MEP Alyn Smith, as reported on this very forum, “There is little I, nor anyone else, can do”.

    This statement alone completely makes redundant any attempt to appeal to the EU as one of their very own ministers is acknowledging that they are useless. I was astonished by the responses to this statement though, with some people saying, “Go on Alyn, you and your fellow MEPs will rescue us!!!” when he was quite clearly saying the opposite. Still…

    Since I’m on to things I hate doing, I have to (partially at least) agree with Costa Costas (I feel dirty for even saying it….)

    Cyprus property developers are not laughing (mountains of debt, loads of unsold property – someone recently estimated about 1.5 million! – some serious investors not happy with them and likely to come after them all guns blazing, QUITE LITERALLY), but I feel they are not overly concerned by CPAG as ultimately, CPAG looks to involve Brussels in arriving at a solution and that aint never gonna happen.

    Denis O’Hare’s resilience in the face of virtually state-sanctioned but groundless threats (for example the court stating that any libellous statements will be prosecuted, when the body whose job it is to determine whether or not a statement is libellous is the actual court itself! Go on Lewis Carrol!!) is admirable.

    The conclusion reached by both Gavin and Unbelievable with regards to the ROC government’s view on dumb foreigners (the low rent mostly British ones like us, not the oligarchs), I’m afraid, also ring true. In order of government priority: 1) Cypprob 2) Large projects using proper rich Foreigners (to try to tackle the MASSIVE balance of payments deficits) 3) Protecting property developers 4) trying to prop up the banks 5) Appeasing the unions while doing 2).

    Er, that’s it.

    They don’t need to look after the lawyers as they are really good at doing that themselves…

  • dimitri says:

    @gavin and unbelievable, please note that not all Cypriots were compensated for losing everything in 1974, those who were abroad earning a living at the time have no ‘refugee rights’ at all, whilst those who may have been from other parts of the island and simply happened to be in the north at the time for example working are classed as refugees….that is Cyprus justice for you….

  • Vlachos the Impaler says:

    Why are Costa Costas and Unbelievable ASSUMING (a) that the new CPAG website is not going to be developed? and (b) that Denis O’Hare’s strategy and tactics over the past year or so just reflect cowardice and not Sun Tzu’s ‘The Art of War’?

    Cowardice? In a tight spot, I’d rather have Denis in my corner than you two brave souls!

    You also miss the point that the whole locus of control of the Title Deeds scandal has decisively shifted from Nicosia and the hands of the Cyprus government to Brussels and the EU and also to Whitehall. There the parasites can be and are being ‘named and shamed’. There are no gagging orders and libel suits that can be thrown at an MEP who formally raises with the EU Commission a question and a request for an investigation of named Cypriot developers or others. It is not libellous to report the fact of such questions and requests or indeed that investigations of a named party are being carried out.

    The Cyprus government may publicly give the impression that the Title Deeds issue is trivial and now ‘fixed’ but I know for a fact that Mr Sylikiotis is deeply concerned at the damage being done by all the negative publicity internationally. He cannot control the latter and neither can the gang of bad developers and their lawyers. There are many ways to win a war.

  • Unbelievable says:

    @Gavin Jones – the 1974 war was sad and very unnecessary. My aunts brother is still missing but that’s another story..

    Most, being refugees and non refugees have done well over the years. If 1974 never happened, I doubt they would have the detached property and businesses they do today. Compensation was also granted to refugees when they married. It all adds up and makes a big difference in today’s market. To have a detached house with small land in the UK is a pipe dream these days.

    The developers and lawyers have plenty of hard cash and can survive for many years even if the property and tourist trade dwindles. Cypriot banks give a good return on interest and ‘yes’ they are still laughing all the way to the bank.

    Cypriot TV and news papers cover the TRNC issue EVERY single day and will do so for another 37yrs!

    Lets hope the Property Action Groups can break that trend!

  • Gavin Jones says:

    Unbelievable (9.39).

    Our family was “compensated” with a grant to the tune of 3,250.00 Cyprus Pounds in 1987 which enabled us to build a house. Naturally, we were, and still are, grateful.

    I presume that those you refer to as having “done very well out of all this” are the majority of the population who were NOT made refugees.

    On a separate thread, I don’t think that “the developers are laughing all the way to the bank” any more, as you put it – unless you’re inferring that they’re indeed “laughing” because they’ve parked their hundreds of millions of Euros of indebtedness into the laps of the banks.

    As for future property sales to foreigners, it’s game over with word having been spread far and wide that Cyprus is to be avoided like the plague.

    I tend to agree with your take on the government’s priorities. The Cyprus Problem will take precedence (for another 37 years?) and those in power are too embedded with their ‘friends’ in the construction industry, legal ‘profession’ and banks to bring down the corrupt edifice.

    However, the groundswell of outrage over the Title Deeds scandal will not be going away sometime soon and the proverbial dyke will ultimately burst to overwhelm all concerned, with the Cypriot nation doubtless picking up the tab.

  • Unbelievable says:

    @Costa Costas – I do agree with your line of thinking here.

    The amount of time and effort CPAG have put in over the years, only to resurface with a site that mirrors LBAG but with no names?

    So what’s the deal here? A good UK Barrister should have advised you to ignore the idiot asking you to shutdown your website as they don’t stand a chance. You could have saved yourself 7,000 euro and had a nice holiday.(not in Cyprus of course)

    As Costas points out, if you don’t name and shame, the developers will be laughing all the way to the bank.

    No Name – No Shame – No Game

    @Gavin Jones- My Cypriot family are all refugees. They lost land, houses and businesses. They were all compensated to some degree and as you say, most have done very well out of all of this.

    I will stick to my guns and say yet again, all the Cypriot government are interested in is the TRNC issue.

    Non-Cypriot Title Deed problems…well, they barely give it a second thought.

    Denis – I think your cause is a worthy one, but if you want to take on Cyprus, Your going to need bigger B*lls my friend. If you don’t name and shame, save your time and effort mate.

    Same for all really. If you can’t name and shame you’ve lost the game.

  • Vlachos the Impaler says:

    This Costa chappie obviously has a personal delusional grudge against CPAG/Denis. We know who the latter are and their objectives and campaign because they have told us all publicly. Denis has even revealed his defence costs. The facts of the libel case outcome and the judge’s instructions to Denis have been reprinted on this website. So, if it’s courage that ‘Costa Costas’ wants, why doesn’t ‘Costa Costas’ also have the courage to tell us all who HE really is and what HIS real motives are?

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    We love you Costa Costas!

    Not just for your surely heartfelt sorrow at us having to listen to poor old Denis O’Hare’s “tales of woe”, but because you have reassured us that the problems he faces, and all of us fortunate enough to have bought property in Cyprus, do not actually exist as they have all been “introduced into our minds”.

    It is a little curious though that you have completely ignored the rather full and detailed answers to your previous assertions (LBAG = CPAG, libel case was dropped on the understanding that previous website removed) but hey, since we all imagined that there were: developer mortgages on sold property; same properties being sold twice; extortion over resales contracts; IPT fraud; non-compliance with building regs; non-payment of CGT and VAT heaping the burden on purchaser etc anyway, why let the truth get in the way of a good rant?

    So, since you are so concerned for the plight of the “played …. audience who supported” Denis, please tell us what action, as opposed to the “no names no action”, you would suggest to right these wrongs?

    That’s if you think these problems exist in the first place…

    You can name names if you want to.

    In the words of Abraham Lincoln:

    “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”

  • @Costa Costas – I suggest that you read some of the earlier comments; your question about why the original website was taken down has already been answered.

  • Gavin Jones says:

    Denis O’Hare.

    It seems that certain individuals seem to delight in peddling their bilious, erroneous comments and demonstrate that quite a number of such vindictive people inhabit these shores.

    They thrive on falsely accusing others of things that are patently untrue in the vain hope that they won’t be challenged. When they are, they employ the “Throw enough mud and some of it will stick” tactic, hoping that their aspersions will create a sufficient amount of doubt and damage anyway, despite their innuendoes and accusations having no merit or substance.

    I and others have had a lifetime’s experience of this island’s crude and hardly disguised modus operandi. One only has to read the Interior Minister’s latest pronouncements, published today on this website and in the Cyprus Mail, as to how he has apparently cut the Gordian Knot and that now everything is hunky-dory vis-a-vis obtaining one’s title deeds: economical with the truth, as per usual, is how I’d describe it and propriety dictates that I refrain from using more colourful language.
    In addition, these characters always have an excuse for everything and use the crudest of stratagems to justify what they say or do; and it’s even more disturbing and unforgivable when people such as Ministers publicize ‘triumphs’ when the reality is that their utterances are laced with untruths or omissions.

    Every day I wonder why people want to live here voluntarily. Everyone arrives here with great hope and boundless energy but there are very few who aren’t ultimately sucked into a quagmire of lies, litigation or worse. A great many of us are trapped for a variety of reasons but as the statistics confirm, the exodus has already reached deluge proportions and will doubtless continue.

    Finally, keep up the good work, Mr. O’Hare, because ‘good’ is what you’re doing. Justice always does prevail and will in the battle against the particular brand of endemic, institutionalized corruption and ‘economy with the truth’ that exist here.

  • Odd_Job_Bob says:

    Denis, keep on doing what you’re doing. I don’t actually agree with your tactics (as ultimately you’ll be hoping for the EU to actually DO something and I think they are completely toothless and the currency doomed to fail) but the publicity, the support of people in trouble, the keeping of this whole issue in the news at great personal cost are all truly heroic actions.

    There are vested interests in this property business that stand to lose an absolute fortune if it all goes tits up (which it absolutely has to, I feel, in a similar way but for different reasons to say Florida property). These vested interests (like that Loizou bloke who was rightly vilified for an absolute drivel article on here a few weeks ago) will attack you with no factual information at all and hope that by throwing poo, some of it will stick.

    No it won’t.

    You have our full support (even though no-one appointed me to speak for anyone else. Sorry!) Let people like Costa Costas continue to set themselves up on these forums and we’ll take great pleasure in knocking him down. The klutz…

  • Denis O'Hare says:

    Costa Costas,

    Is this your real name? – and who do you work for?

    I don’t know where you are getting your disgusting information from but the question of me dropping the website in return for the libel case against me being dropped is totally and absolutely untrue. Indeed the idea was never mentioned or discussed – at any stage – by the way, the website was dropped even before we hired a lawyer.

    It cost me 7,000 euros to challenge the injunction, although a couple of thousand was contributed (unsolicited) by a few supporters. I am also extremely grateful to the 6 brave and decent people who supported my case with their written testimonies.

    Finally, I don’t want your apology but you might, if you have any decency at all, want to apologise to these magnificent people who stuck their necks out.

  • andyp says:

    @ Costas Costas.

    Might I ask if you have put yourself,family and all your possessions in the front line and at risk to assist others with property problems in Cyprus or indeed anywhere else?

    Look forward to hearing from you

  • @Costas Costas – In the case brought against Denis O’Hare the court forbade “the respondent personally or his agents or representatives from publishing, printing, circulating or in any other way repeating or causing the publication, printing, circulation or in any other way repetition of the assertions which refer to the plaintiffs…and any other similar assertions (that are) libellous of the plaintiffs.”

    The endorsement of the court order by the judge stated: “If you the respondent Denis O’Hare of Peyia and/or your agents or your representatives fail to obey this order immediately, then you are liable to arrest and your property to confiscation.”

    In a CPAG update sent out on April 23, the group said: “In this situation it is difficult to imagine how Denis can continue to run CPAG and it is likely that the web- site, which he currently owns and finances, will need to close down, and he and the current CPAG will of necessity cease to be able to assist buyers. This is due to the possibility that any entity in Cyprus could now use the same draconian measures to attack him and CPAG.”

  • Vlachos the Impaler says:

    @ Costas Costas. You are very confused. LBAG has not relaunched as CPAG. LBAG and CPAG are two entirely different entities run by different people – always have been. CPAG came first in 2007 and LBAG much later. CPAG was not dissolved after the libel case but was merely working quietly in the corridors of the European Parliament and Whitehall. LBAG was not enjoined in the libel case. So, what exactly did they – or CPAG – roll over on??

    Another poster calls CPAG’s action since the collapse of the libel case against Denis O’Hare as following the Art of War by Sun Tzu. Hardly toothless inaction.

  • Gavin Jones says:

    Unbelievable (5.25 p.m. yesterday).

    Your statement that “The only thing that concerns the Cypriots is kicking out the Turks from Northern Cyprus and claiming back their land and property” is only partly correct.

    In the main, your assertion only applies to the refugees as the majority of the population have lost nothing and have done very nicely thank you.

    It’s also ironic that the President, politicians and ‘patriots’ keep citing what a travesty it is that the Turks occupy over a third of the island’s land, ignore UN resolutions and international law.

    Why? Because the Cypriot government condones the nefarious practice of its ‘friends’ in the construction industry, legal profession and financial institutions of secretly and fraudulently mortgaging the land and homes of those who’ve bought homes and using them as collateral.

    By their actions, they’ve withheld legal and rightful ownership to ten of thousands of innocent people.

    They’re as guilty as the Turks, if not more so, and their collective fraud and chicanery are finally being exposed to a wider world audience.

    For the record, I’m a registered refugee who’s lost my home and business in Famagusta.

  • izzy says:

    To Unbelievable

    LBAG – name names? are you on the wacky backy ?

    The only thing that concerns foreigners is getting ownership of the property they have paid you people for.

    Isn’t it interesting that everything in the Land Registry has a 1980 value ? Doesn’t this mean that every land title has been doctored since 1974 ?

    In the event of a settlement (no chance) won’t the foreigners without title deeds risk losing out?

    Is this why we cannot get title deeds ?

  • @Unbelievable – the problem is that those who feel aggrieved can take you to court, even if there is no case to answer.

    And if you are taken to court, you must defend yourself.

    Defending yourself costs money.

    I don’t know how much it cost Denis O’Hare to defend the action taken against him, but I suspect it was a few thousand Euros.

    I was in court on the day of the trial when the plaintiff’s lawyer stood up and announced that his client wished to withdraw the charge. Outside the court I asked him if he would advise me why his client decided to withdraw. His answer was an emphatic NO!

    I’m sure that if you were prepared to underwrite the costs of defending possible legal action, CPAG would be very grateful.

    Do you really thing CPAG has the financial and legal resources of the BBC?

  • @Mr Angry – on the subject of Immovable Property Tax, I suggest that you look at your Contract of Sale and also http://www.cyprus-property-buyers.com/law/tax.htm

    Regarding Title Deeds – in Cyprus the land and properties built on them are inseparable in terms of title. So those building on land they own (which is what I did) do not need another Title Deed.

    The tax loophole regarding unfinished properties was closed years ago.

  • Unbelievable says:

    @Robert Briggs – Aim a bit lower than the hands. Try in-between the legs!

    The only thing that concerns the Cypriots is kicking out the Turks from Northern Cyprus and claiming back their land & property.

    They have been fighting this case since 1974. You guys will still be fighting your case 37yrs from now.

    I hope CPAG, LBAG and anyone else can prove us wrong!

    @LBAG – what’s wrong with naming names if your case is 100% true? I don’t hear of lyingbuilder.com being sued and told to shutdown?

    Same goes for BBC WatchDog and many other websites..

  • Mr Angry says:

    In relation to the comments re. IPT:

    I have refused to pay IPT to my developer until I get the deeds. My developer is not the Inland Revenue, and is not therefore legally able to demand taxes from me. Furthermore, the I.R. cannot make the developer into a tax collector on their behalf.

    On a related subject, many Cypriots chose not to take up their title deeds, having built upon their own land, for which they most likely have a deed. They do this by leaving the rebar protruding from the roof, indicating that the building is as yet unfinished. The “excuse” is that another story is to be added, but often the reason is simply to avoid taxes. I have seen buildings in a local village which probably already exceed the legal maximum height at three stories (and look very out of place), with rebar indicating that they are awaiting a fourth floor!! Pull the other one!!

    Actually, if you look at the commercial properties and showrooms coming down Polis road through Mesogi road into Paphos, the vast majority are technically unfinished with rebar showing. The authorities must be losing astronomical sums in property taxes!

    But then, with the country booming, who cares!

  • dimitri says:

    I reckon making an appearance outside the pending exhibition and handing out leaflets (against dodgy practices here) will be good….

    8th Property Exhibition 2011
    29th April – 1st May

    friday 29 Απριλίου, 16:00 – 22:00
    sat 30 Απριλίου, –16:00 – 22:00
    sun 1 Μαΐου, –16:00 – 22:00
    stand 4 (ΕΧPO center CYPRUS)

    This exhibition has become one of the most important events in real estate. It provides great opportunities to developers, contractors, bankers, financial advisors and many others to come into contact with visitors and inform them of the latest changes and prospects in real estate, for the Cypriot and International markets.

  • Denton Mackrell says:

    @Costas Costas. My recollection of the end of the libel case against CPAG was that the plaintiffs suddenly withdrew their action mid-proceedings, presumably when they saw the strength of defence evidence about to be presented in court. I would hardly describe this as CPAG rolling over or failing to stand up!!

    From what I can see, CPAG have been following The Art of War by Sun Tzu, not rolling over and failing to stand up.

  • LBAG Supporter says:

    Costa Costas

    I think you have it all wrong, as many of us remember CPAG stood up to the developer and confronted them in court, quite a few of us were there in court to witness this! I hear that it also cost Mr O’Hare a bit of money to do this, when he could have backed down for free – you will see that it was actually the developer who backed down and withdrew the case if you check Nigel’s website details. Prior to this CPAG also had legal threats from other developers so I am told.

    From memory, and Nigel will correct me if I am wrong, Mr O’Hare was threatened with imprisonment, confiscation of his assets and a 500,000 euro libel case – yet obviously there was no case against him when it was challenged – what a corrupt country!

    Shortly after this the LBAG website went live
    http://www.leptos-buyers-action-group.com/

    CPAG appear to have strategically withdrawn in order to come back now with very strong EU and UK government backing and a whole new game plan.

    I think this time they also look far better protected as they do not name names as far as I can see – maybe this is what they have learned.

  • @Peter G Davis – I believe you will find that the interest is a penalty charge levied by the Inland Revenue Department for late payment of Immovable Property Tax.

    I was dealing with a case a couple of years ago where the developer had not paid his Immovable Property Tax for nearly 20 years – and then tried to penalty charges from one of his customers.

  • Gavin Jones says:

    Hilda Nixon (12.09 yesterday) & Others.

    In answer to your very relevant and searching question, I would like to direct you to an article published in the Cyprus Mail on 27/2/11 written by Dr. Christalla Yakinthou entitled ‘Acceptance of police brutality underlines our slave mentality’.

    In my opinion, what she says goes some way to explaining the Cypriot mindset and it’s well worth taking the trouble to search out and read the article thoroughly.

    For the record, my mother was a Cypriot so I consider that I too have inside knowledge on the subject.
    When the article came out the author had to take considerable stick from the so-called ‘patriots’ who took umbrage and vilified her with their comments. I and others who defended her also came under fire and were accused of being racist and worse.

    I leave it to you to make your own judgement.

  • Robert Briggs says:

    (re; Mr Unbelieveable’s comments.) Dear Sir, to get them to “cough up”, give this scum a choice. Either pay full compensation to those they have defrauded, or have their right hands chopped off!

  • Peter G Davis says:

    @Mike,

    I find your comments interesting about Cypriots not being worried, but most developers are charging 9% for each year they pay the taxes on behalf of the occupier.

    Is the Cypriot not paying these interest rates, not aware of the 9% or just not being charged them by the developer?

  • Mike says:

    Well done, excellent, let us have the MEP’s with backbone raise these issues in the European Parliament.

    To Hilda Nixon, Cypriots are doing something, I am one but please remember that Cypriots are not as concerned about title deeds as until they are issued they do not pay immovable property tax. If the developer owns it the developer must pay. Obviously not what the developers past scams with IPT demands to foreigners suggest but many a Cypriot will tell them to pay the tax as it is their name on the deed.

    Good luck to all concerned.

  • Richard says:

    Great work – and I look forward to letting a lot more people know about this via Twitter and any other forums that I can.

    Is anyone from the CPAG going down to the International Real Estate Convention in Paphos next month?

    Do the crew of ‘Holiday Homes from Hell’ feel like coming back to film it if they are going en-masse? That is of course – if they’ve got over the experience of being shot at last time they were on the island. Perhaps the air-force camps have some spare kevlar vests!

    I agree that putting content in Russian is excellent.

    Keep us updated and good luck

  • hector says:

    Welcome back and congratulations on doing so.

  • Robert Briggs says:

    My compliments Gentlemen & the CPAG Teams!

  • Martyn says:

    Well done DoH and CPAG, continue blasting away, responsibly as now, at the fraudulent and institutionalised malpractices that have brought so much misery to so many Purchasers of Cyprus properties – and doubtless lined the very large pockets of many a Cyprus Developer, Lawyer – and, most likely, Bank Shareholders over many years. With the well recognised support of Alyn Smith, I sense we are at or near the ‘tipping point’ regarding getting action soon against these various professionals, politicians and property developers who have assiduously colluded in a variety of institutionalised and it seems illegal acts. BUT:

    These problems need sorting now, well before Cyprus takes up the EU Presidency next July, herein lies one Very big lever, threshold that can ensure the rest of the EC/world get to know, and importantly, what has been going on.

    AND it must be recognised, this will mean short-term anyway, impacts, possibly severe, on the already deflated Cyprus property markets – the EU must therefore lay responsibility for these ongoing problems firmly at the Cyprus government’s door and demand appropriate Government compensation for those who have been swindled, deceived, robbed.

  • Hilda Nixon says:

    I am behind the CPAG completely but can’t help wondering why Cypriots are not doing likewise?

  • Unbelievable says:

    CPAG & Nigel – Your Gallant & Glorious efforts will hopefully ease the pain and suffering for 10’s of thousands who have spent & potential lost their life savings in Cyprus.

    Now to act fast…

    Need to find out how the EU & Cyprus courts will squeeze the crocked Cypriots to cough up what they owe!

    I’m worried these crooks will plead poverty after hiding their loot. Leaving Nothing for the creditors.

    A bit like the UK IVA – Individual Voluntary Arrangement

    Or DMP – Debt Management Plan

  • CPAG says:

    Due to the fast moving efforts at the EU this new website had to be brought up fairly quickly. There is no way this could have been done without the technical expertise and infinite patience of one Nigel Howarth. The translation feature (including Russian Andrew) is particularly cute.

    Nigel you are a superstar! – many, many thanks.

  • Gavin Jones says:

    Peter G. Davis.

    Have to disagree with you. You’re ALWAYS sticking your neck out – especially in the Cyprus Weekly – and they DO “bite you”! Welcome to the club and continue to “stick your neck out”.

    Denis O’Hare.

    Well done to you – yet again.

    The vested interests of government, ‘developers’, lawyers, financial institutions, related services AND apologists will not get away with this deceit and corruption.

    With your passion for the cause, stamina, practical steps, unconditional advice and nurturing of EU relationships, together with varying degrees of input from the rest of us, we will prevail to bring down this incestuous, evil regimen.

  • Peter G Davis says:

    I’m not use to sticking my neck out, but hey bite me.

    Nice to have you back Denis, they think its all over, but they’re wrong. When do the Estate Agents meet in Cyprus? And then on to Nicosia. I have no problems blocking the motorway as we go along.

  • Mr Angry says:

    Well done to Denis O’Hare in getting CPAG back in operation. I am heartily sick of being one of thousands who have, in all good faith, brought their life savings to buy property in Cyprus, and to end up being treated with arrogant contempt.

    This government, and its incestuous confraternity of lawyers, developers and bankers all richly deserve what I believe they have coming to them.

  • Andrew says:

    Think of your friends, think of your family and back CPAG.

    Well done Denis O`Hare.

    Is it wrong to expect what you have paid for, what is rightfully yours.

    Now tell the Russians !

  • Here it Comes.. says:

    Welcome back CPAG – Good on you guys.

    Hey, if you want media coverage, how about a protest outside the offices when Cyprus takes the EU Presidency seat. Someone’s bound to take interest :-)

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